Protecting Yourself in the World of Dating: Amber Fry & Grace Mullane

Ever found yourself engrossed in a true crime story and wondered how you would navigate the complexities of personal safety in your own life? Join me as I unravel the emotional layers of this gripping topic, starting with a heartfelt confrontation over a tragic misunderstanding that underscores the importance of effective communication. Through this journey, my passion for true crime documentaries shines through, advocating the value of such stories in teaching crucial life lessons.

Imagine dating in the ever-vibrant yet perilous nightlife of Las Vegas as a single mother. You'll hear firsthand accounts of the measures I took to ensure my safety and the chilling reality of intimate partner violence, illustrated by the heartbreaking case of Lacey Peterson. Discover the immense bravery of Amber Fry, whose pivotal role in the investigation serves as an inspiration for single mothers everywhere. This chapter is a must-listen for anyone seeking to understand the dark realities faced by single women in the dating world.

The digital dating realm isn't without its dangers, and this episode sheds light on the potential threats lurking behind seemingly innocent profiles. Reflecting on notorious murder cases, such as the tragic story of Grace Mullane, I share my cautious approach to online dating and the importance of implementing safety measures. From conducting video calls to opting for public meetings, these practical safety tips aim to protect you in the digital dating landscape. Tackling the issue of victim-blaming, we emphasize the necessity of setting boundaries and trusting one's instincts, offering listeners the tools needed to navigate online dating with confidence and caution.

Chapters

• 0:00 True Crime Fandom and Safety Tips
• 4:02 Dating Safety in Vegas and Beyond
• 9:31 Online Dating Dangers
• 16:53 Dating Safety Tips and Boundaries
• 27:41 Dating Safety and Boundaries

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

You came and told me this elaborate lie about her missing and this tragedy and that this will be the first holidays without her. I never said, amber, I don't want to fight with you you know that I never said tragedy or missing. Oh, yes, you said you've lost your wife. No, you said, obviously without me saying much. I said that I've lost my wife. Yes, you did.

Speaker 1: 0:41

I cannot believe all the views that I got on my last episode, the Wade Wilson obsession. I really can't. I was coming from a place of why are these women so into these notorious killers? Like I could not understand what the hype was, so I figured I would do a deep dive on it and share it with you guys. Well, that episode got almost 5,000 views and it is still trending upwards. I picked up over 55 new followers and, kind of blown away by it, I had no idea the level of fandom that is out there for this type of material and I can't ignore that.

Speaker 1: 1:27

I talk about hot topics, I talk about the things that I'm going through from a mental health point of view and now I feel like I need to dive deeper into that area. How can I not? I mean, how can I not? I love documentaries. I love documentaries. I would much rather watch a story on somebody that was real and have it with real footage and real phone calls. And that is what's intriguing to me is actually hearing the people. Seeing the people, because every time I watch a movie based on a true life event or person, I find myself going to Google afterwards to see who they are. It's intriguing to me, so I know that true life is definitely in my DNA. I'm really excited to have these new friends here and I will follow what you want to see. This is for you Today. I figured that I would talk about.

Speaker 1: 2:27

Well, first of all, I am a single woman in America. Being a single woman, it comes with trepidation in certain things that are out there. Just women in general have fears that maybe in general have fears that maybe men don't have. We go through a dark parking lot and we're terrified. We have mace and pepper spray and some women are carrying guns. You know, I live in a state Texas where it is okay to carry as long as you have a permit. We are always looking for ways to protect ourselves. So when I see these different unsolved mysteries or true life crime, it makes me even more hyper aware. So, if I take it from the standpoint of how can we protect ourselves, how can we avoid being the victim, now I can tell you a million different ways to make that happen, articles that I read, things that I've come across. There is no fail proof way of making that happen, but we can arm ourselves with the intelligence by hearing these stories and preparing ourselves.

Speaker 1: 3:38

So, as I was saying, I am a single woman in America. I don't like the bars. There is a lot of crime stories that start with a date, rape, drug or meeting a man in a bar and going home with him or him following you home from the bar, you getting separated from your friends. Oh, I've seen all of it and I'm sure you have as well. I don't really love the bars, it's just not my thing.

Speaker 1: 4:02

I did live in Vegas for like five years as a single mother and I would go to the clubs and I would meet people and you know that's a tourist site. That is a place where you can party 24 seven. And obviously I left later so that I could get my my family out of there, get my kids and raise in a much more family environment, family-friendly environment. But I was a single woman in Vegas and there was a huge nightlife there and it would be in my head I would be worried One of the dates that I went on. I know I'm dating myself, but that's okay, I don't mind it. All these years have given me wisdom and knowledge.

Speaker 1: 4:43

I was meeting people through MySpace at the time and I met my ex through MySpace. We talked on the phone. First. There wasn't really a FaceTime thing at that point. I think it was 2004. It wasn't really a big FaceTime thing, which now I would do. We decided to meet at Green Valley Ranch. They have a movie theater downstairs, downstairs, or they did, I don't know anymore, I don't live there and so we met there and then we were going to go to the club at another part of the casino. Well, I told my cousin, I said listen, we are going to meet at the club at such and such a time. Be there. If I don't show up, you need to send the search party out. Make sure that you can find me. Here's a picture of him. Here's the MySpace page. So I was protecting myself against all of these horrific thoughts that were in my head. Just dating, and it worked out well. We. Obviously we were together for over 10 years, but it doesn't always work out well and the stories that I've come across since I've been doing my research have been horrific. And now here I am, 2024, single, looking at the dating apps, being very weary of what is out there. I started this episode with the Amber Fry phone call and, although it isn't the main heart of the story, the main heart of the story is Lacey Peterson. She is the victim in this case, but so is Amber Fry in different, completely different ways.

Speaker 1: 6:12

I watched the three-part docuseries on Netflix American Murder. It's based on the murder of Lacey Peterson and her unborn son Connor. The villain, murderer monster in this story is Scott Peterson. I remember, before I met Scott Lacey telling me all these things about him and I remember saying, as her mother I hope he's not filling her with crap. I have learned to go with the gut feeling. 911? Yes, my daughter's been missing since this morning. She's eight months pregnant. I've had missing person cases before, but this one was bigger. Already.

Speaker 1: 6:57

When Lacey met Scott, she was very giddy. They were just a cute couple. They acted like newlyweds. Scott wasn't engaging the media. We figured that eventually he would talk to us. We're at the police station and the phone rings. This lady tells me she's been dating Scott Peterson. So what do you want to be together with me?

Speaker 1: 7:20

This murder happened over 20 years ago and one of the stats kind of stuck out to me when I was watching the series they mentioned the murder of pregnant women being a very high statistic, which I had never known until I watched this. So I went and I looked it up and it shows that intimate partner violence was a factor in 71% of homicides among pregnant and postpartum women 71%. You know, rational thinking is we are bringing their child into the world. This is all about love and it just it was shocking. Watching the series, I know that a good 99.9% of America knows about this case. It was a national case. Scott Peterson has been interviewed by just about everyone and I watched those interviews.

Speaker 1: 8:16

I was curious. I was watching his body language. I was watching how he would answer questions and how detached he was from emotion. He showed the signs of being guilty. He went fishing. Nobody knew about his boat. He named the exact place that the bodies of his wife and unborn son would wash up. There was more than one anchor on the boat and only one was found. These are the things that just scream guilt.

Speaker 1: 8:45

But another part of that was the fact that he was having an affair with Amber Fry and that is why I chose the Amber Fry phone call for the beginning of this episode, because I wanted to come at it from a perspective of single women in America, and she was. She was a single mom. She had a 23 month old baby at home. I think Amber Fry showed such bravery and, coming forward to the police right away, she did not hesitate. He lied to her on December 9th. He told her that his wife was missing, when in fact his wife did not go missing until December 24th while walking her dog.

Speaker 1: 9:31

So a lot of people come from the perspective of just because he cheated doesn't make him a murderer, and you would be right it doesn't. It makes you a shady, manipulative, cunning individual who doesn't care about your wife or your spouse, but not a murderer. Until you factor in all of the other parts of this murder, it all adds up to him being convicted and I think now, in 2024, he is and 2023, he's been trying to come out with more evidence. They want DNA evidence. I have not followed up with what's happening. Now, watching the docuseries, I really have no reason to feel like he's not guilty. This is just my own opinion, obviously, and you have yours.

Speaker 1: 10:20

But watching this from an Amber Frye perspective, I can connect with her here. I can connect with the fact that she was just a single woman trying to fall in love, trying to have a good, stable life for her daughter. Because that's me right now. I am a single woman that would love to be in love, but because I don't go to the bars and I don't not very social, I'm kind of an introvert. You wouldn't know that because here I am speaking to you. I think one of the only ways for me to actually meet someone, if not at work which there's nobody at work, and I don't like to mix the two anyway would be the dating apps. Yeah, and that's scary way would be the dating apps. Yeah, and that's scary, at least now, one of my rules.

Speaker 1: 11:09

One of my rules is after I start talking to somebody and we go through that horrific get to know you phase, which is like an interview on steroids what's your favorite color, where are you from, do you love your mom? You know all that stuff. What do you do? Then you're like okay, well, we have a lot in common but we still don't know. Are they putting a show on? Are they a dangerous, murderous serial killer? I have no idea. How would I know? I have no idea. So we go to the next phase, which is well, let me see if they're catfishing me at least Let me. Let me, like, look a little bit further so we can do a FaceTime and I can see if, if everything he said was true on his profile, and from there I kind of want to do that for a week or two. From there we can meet in a public place and I would inform my friends and let my friends know where I was.

Speaker 1: 12:04

But it's scary. First of all, before I get into the story that I found, which is heinous, how did you feel about Amber Frye when you first heard about it? Because I've seen people and they're like whore slut, she didn't do anything wrong. My friend, she didn't. She didn't know he was married and she damn sure didn't know he was a fucking murderer. So I would like you to rethink that and reevaluate that and stop blaming the woman. I pulled up an article on creepybonfirecom titled Tinder Terror the app's most shocking crime stories. We're going to pull out one. We just need one. That's all we need to terrify us as single women in America. Jesse Kempson the chilling Tinder date tragedy of Grace Mullane.

Speaker 1: 12:50

The murder of Grace Mullane, a British tourist, by Jesse Shane Kempson in Auckland, New Zealand, in December 2018, is a tragic and disturbing case that garnered significant attention. Grace Mullane, who had recently graduated from the University of Lincoln with a degree in advertising and marketing, was on a backpacking tour during her gap year. She entered New Zealand on November 20, 2018, and traveled around the Upper North Island before arriving in Auckland on November 30. On December 1, 2018, the night before her 22nd birthday, malayne was seen with Jesse Kempson at the City Life Hotel on Queen Street in Auckland. Her parents became concerned after she did not respond to birthday wishes on December 2nd and she was reported missing three days later. The hotel reported that she did not return to her room that night. Initially, there was no evidence of foul play, but the police later gathered evidence that she was no longer alive.

Speaker 1: 13:55

The Tinder messages exchanged between Grace Mullane and Jesse Shane Kempson played a crucial role in the investigation and trial surrounding Mullane's murder. These messages were released in 2019 and presented to jurors during the Kempson's three-week trial, where he was found guilty of murder. The conversation began with Kempson sending the first message on the dating app and initiating contact with Grace. He wrote hey, grace, how are you? Much planned this weekend? Grace responded by telling him it was her birthday the next day and that she had no specific plans. Kempson then suggested that they go for a drink.

Speaker 1: 14:37

Grace appeared initially hesitant to meet the local man during her travels, responding with maybe to his proposals. Kempson persisted asking maybe, yes. This prompted Grace to suggest that he needed to convince her. Kempson offered to shout free booze for Grace and recommended a cool Mexican place. Grace told him she was maybe up for drinks, but when Kempson suggested another venue, she replied I haven't said yes yet. In a response that later took on a chilling significance, kempson replied you haven't said no either. The pair eventually met for a date in Auckland, which ended tragically with Grace returning to Kempson's room where he fatally strangled her. The following day, when Grace failed to contact her family and did not respond to birthday messages, concerns were raised, leading to her being reported missing. Her body was found in a mountain range outside of Auckland a few days later.

Speaker 1: 15:42

These messages, while seemingly innocuous at first later revealed the manipulative tactics employed by Kempson to lure Grace into meeting him, culminating in the events that followed. I would like to say I don't correct me if I'm wrong, put it in the comments I do not see any manipulative tactics. That sounds like a normal, everyday dating app message for me. Right? I know it's chilling to look back and think he was calculating what he would do to her, but as women, how would we notice that? To me, there was nothing that really stood out as weird. It was sarcastic and it was lighthearted and it was flirty. It didn't appear weird to me. Tell me if I'm wrong. Again, this is just my opinion. The case highlights the potential dangers of online dating and the importance of being cautious when meeting someone for the first time. I still don't know how she could have avoided it. Maybe not going back to his place. I think that's the only misstep that may have happened.

Speaker 1: 16:53

I think based on this story alone, jesse Kempson, then 26 years old, was taken into custody on December 8th 2018 and charged with Mullane's murder. Mullane's body was found on December 9th off Scenic Drive in the Waitakere Ranges and I'm definitely pronouncing that wrong. A post-mortem examination was conducted on December 10th. Kempson was tried at the Auckland High Court in November 2019. He claimed that Mullane had died during consensual sex. After a three-week trial, he was convicted by a unanimous guilty verdict and later sentenced to life imprisonment with a minimum non-parole period of 17 years. Kempson filed an appeal against his conviction, which was dismissed by New Zealand's Court of Appeal on December 18th 2020. The New Zealand Supreme Court lifted the suppression order on his name on December 22nd 2020. It was also revealed that he had been convicted of rape and sexual abuse charges relating to two other women in October and November 2020.

Speaker 1: 18:09

You know, I'm still scratching my head. I don't know how she could have prevented that. She was attracted to him. They were flirty messages, they were young, it just. It seemed normal from all perspectives. But when, just like when a narcissist love bombs, it's everything you want to hear. I believe in love. I believe in the fairy tale of love. Even with the amount of relationships I've been in, I still believe in it. I still think it can happen, and this isn't me trying to convince you not to do it. It's just maybe a way to tell you to protect yourself. Just protect yourself. So I have a few ways to do that I cannot have this episode to scare you and not arm you with the ability to think through things, to protect yourself, even when it comes to your online profile and maybe what you reveal in messages. Maybe these small things can protect you from the monsters out there trying to hurt you. I pulled up an article from Talkify and it's called 12 Essential Dating Safety Tips for Online Daters, published by Vince Rico.

Speaker 1: 19:29

Number one and probably the most important safety tip on this list and in life trust your gut. If something feels off, it usually is Trust it. Don't push it down. If it's a red flag, it's up there for a reason. You have these internal things inside that protect you. That's what they're there for inside. That protect you. That's what they're there for. That signals that there's something off, there's something wrong. Trust it. If there's inconsistencies with what they're saying, trust your gut they're lying. So that would, without a doubt, be number one.

Speaker 1: 20:23

Number two keep personal information private. Avoid sharing your full name, home address or workplace. It's better to be safe than sorry, and with Google right now, we can type in the whole name and it will show you addresses. It will show you Facebook, instagram. Don't connect those either. Do not connect your social media to your dating apps. Don't do it because that's a way for them to connect personal information that you have, like who you're friends with, where they live. You know it starts. You can. You can find out everything on Google. Keep your last name out of it Every time and don't connect social media to your dating app. Use a unique username and when you pick this username, don't pick Dallas, texas, walmart girl, like that could be your city, your state and where you work. No, no, no, just no. Use a secure messaging platform, meaning don't give out your cell phone number, because, once again, you can use that reverse lookup online.

Speaker 1: 21:30

No, some people have a burner phone for just that reason. So that, well, I mean a lot of cheaters have a burner phone. But if you weren't a cheater and you were a single person, a burner phone might come in useful because they can go there, you can shut that bad boy off and it's not connected to a phone bill. You know you put 20 bucks on it or something. I think I don't have a burner phone. I'm actually talking to myself too. Like, what are you doing? I am so up and down about the dating apps that I haven't even gotten to the stage of a FaceTime, so I'm not really worried that they have my cell phone, but I should get a burner phone. I think I like that idea.

Speaker 1: 22:04

Also, emails Don't send them to your email. Avoid moving conversations to personal email, instagram or your phone too quickly. Hot take no stranger interested in dating. You needs to be tapping into your LinkedIn, though. They may stumble upon it in the Google search. So, yeah, stop. Don't connect anything that is connected to you personally that you can Google and connect it.

Speaker 1: 22:28

Conduct a reverse image search Great idea, don't they? I think they do that on the catfish show. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, to ensure the person you're talking to is genuine, conduct a reverse image search on their profile picture. This simple step can help you identify if the images are stolen without permission. I've never done this. I'm so doing this. You can access this via Google or tiny eye. It's free and it's a valuable tool for detecting potential catfishing attempts. Pro hint, if you do not receive images directly, many iPhone and Android photos and videos also have time and geolocation stamps which you can access by clicking info on the image itself. Check that out Also, high pixelated images, images of your prospect at a far distance or always in sunglasses, might also be regarded as questionable, I would agree.

Speaker 1: 23:27

Number six set boundaries and communicate clearly. I think I'm really good at setting boundaries. I mean, as I get older, I get a lot better at communicating. What's a hard stop a hard? No, I don't really. I've never, I don't really struggle there, but you may, so let me read it for you Establish clear boundaries and communicate them to the person you're talking.

Speaker 1: 23:49

To. Be upfront about your expectations and comfort levels. If something makes you uncomfortable, don't hesitate to express it. A respectful and understanding person will appreciate your honesty and prioritize your boundaries, which you might also consider when racking up your list of first date deal breakers. Also, making your intentions clear about the type of date you're hoping to have can mitigate confusion and mixed signals.

Speaker 1: 24:19

Yep. Number seven take things at your own pace, which is, I think, similar to making boundaries, being very clear with your intentions, and don't let anybody pressure you to move too fast. This is your life, this is your choices. This isn't about what they want. Don't be afraid that you're going to lose this guy because you're not moving fast enough for him. Fuck him. Yeah, I, I, yeah. I needed to pull up that word for this situation because it's that real, absolutely not. The right person is going to move at the pace that is right and will not pressure you in those situations. So bye, video chat before meeting. I was just saying that I totally believe in that. I think it is so true because you can actually see what this other person sounds like, looks like if you're still attracted to them and if they are who they say they are.

Speaker 1: 25:21

Plus, look at the background. Is he running out to his truck to talk to you, to FaceTime? That's a red flag. That is a big red flag Like why do you always have to talk to me in your truck in the dark outside? Bring me inside, take me inside. You see what I'm saying. You could be married, you could be the Amber Frye situation. You don't know. Look at the background, do the FaceTime and number nine inform a friend or family member. That's what I did when I was in Vegas. Yeah, tell people where you're going. Maybe turn on location, share with your friend so that they can see exactly what's happening.

Speaker 1: 26:02

I have life 360. I have it with all of my kids, except for my oldest, who's 30 and won't let me turn it on. Still trying. Haven't been defeated completely yet, still trying, but yeah, with with my 15 year old, but still trying, but yeah, with my 15-year-old. Is he 15 or 16? With my 16-year-old Just turned 16 last month. Anyway, I have it turned on. It has been so amazing, so amazing. I can even see how fast his friends are driving. I can see when he's walking. When he's driving, everything's crash notifications turned on. He can also see that with me and he definitely tracks me.

Speaker 1: 26:44

Hannah, my daughter. She is 21. Her location tracking is on and it's something that I find extremely valuable. So if you know you're going out somewhere on a new date and you're going to be meeting a stranger, turn that bad boy on. It will show exactly where you are. There is no guessing, and if the person, if your friend or family member doesn't like what they're seeing on the app like, why are you out there? Why have you been out there for this long? Where are you? You get reactions instantly and you can notify the police that there's something wrong. You're saving time and such crucial time if something should happen, turn the location on.

Speaker 1: 27:27

Meet in a public place. I think that should be standard. I think that that should be one of the first rules you make for yourself Meet at a public place. 100%. I don't think I can get any more clear. Meet in a public place.

Speaker 1: 27:41

11. Arrange your own transportation. You know, back in the day it was so, it was chivalry to get picked up on a date from your house in high school. When you get picked up, you want them to come in and meet your family, meet your parents, and it's the gentlemanly thing to do In the dating app world, not so much. Do not let them pick you up. I don't care if you've been talking to them for a month. Do not let them pick you up at your house. You drive yourself. You get an Uber. Do not go in the car with them. Set the boundaries early. And then it talks about Talkify I guess it's an app which I'd never heard of and it just tells you Talkify takes all of these steps to make sure that you're safe. That's number 12. So yeah, great article. I hope some of those tips helped a little bit.

Speaker 1: 28:36

If you're just starting to enter the dating world, if you're newly divorced and you've been with your husband or wife since high school, times have changed, times are different and, as a woman, you need to protect yourself regardless.

Speaker 1: 28:48

I would also suggest, as a number 13, bring your pepper spray, bring your mace, bring you know they sell these things where they have. You can put them on your knuckles the knuckle things, little defense things that you can have on a key chain something sharp. As I get into these crime stories and documentaries, I am wanting to make sure I am protected. I am wanting to have these conversations with my kids and I know in the Wade Wilson obsession episode I talk about how I don't want to bring darkness into my life so I don't consume a lot of it. Well, my, my new approach is I want to learn as much as I can and I want to be as smart as I can, and that is why, and if I can share anything for safety for you and my family, I'm going to do it. So I just want to keep you safe. Love you, miss you, bye.